Virtue of selfishness
Submitted by civil on November 1, 2008 - 9:56am
I hear that Sen Obama has now accused Mcain and Palin of making a virtue out of being selfish since they disagree with his philosophy of sharing the wealth. Let me tell Sen. Obama something. I am probably as poor as anyone reading this blog. I live in a 50 year old house. I drive a 20 year old vehicle. I don't own a real "dress-up" suit. I have only one pair of shoes. I collect a little social security, about equal to what I contributed over the years, and I am one of that 40% who pays no income tax. However, If the government wants my contribution to bolster our defenses, or a little help is needed for hurricane or other natural disaster victims, I'll be glad to give what I can, but I don't want the government taxing "Joe-the plumber" or anyone else in order to give me $500 per year and I don't think it is selfish of Joe to want to keep what he earns and donate as he sees fit, not as the government dictates.
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Analyst after analyst has proved that Joe the Plumber would get a tax cut under the Obama plan, so you don't have to worry about poor old Joe having to kick in an extra 3% of his income unless his income level rises above $250,000, in which case he would well be able to afford that extra 3%. If Joe the Plumber is making that much money and wants to cry about a 3% tax hike, then I would say, yeah, he's a selfish crybaby.
Maybe you don't need the extra $500, but millions of American families really do. But if you and everyone else who feels guilty about getting an extra $500 tax refund gave it to whatever plumber never felt the least bit bad about taking a homeowner's money during a time of crisis, then many more plumbers could get rich like Joe the Plumber thinks he's going to.
Better yet, spend that refund money and get it back in the economy so that it can trickle back up to all of those pitiful rich people who are being called on to pay their fair share after 7 years of Bush Tax Cuts for the Wealthy.
You conveniently forgot to add the fact that he is also raising the SS/Medicare Tax rate also from 2.9 to 15.3, so Joe the plumber would get a 16% hike times the amount of employees he has. And there is noise about raising the payroll tax cap too.
http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/five-things-you-might-not/story.as...
1. Two-thirds of small business profits are earned in households making more
than $250,000 per year -- the very households Obama is shouting from the
rooftops that he will raise taxes on (Source: IRS Statistics of Income
Bulletin*). Small business profits are used to create jobs and invest in
America. This is the answer to the Obama campaign's irrelevant
claim that the number of small businesses affected will be small -- the
fact is that the bulk of profits will face a tax hike.
2. Small businesses pay income taxes at the household level. This means
that the Obama plan to raise tax rates is a direct tax hike on small
businesses -- sole proprietorships, partnerships, S-corporations, and
family farms
3. The tax rate on the lion's share of small business income could
reach 54.9 percent under a President Obama (the individual top rate will
climb from 35 percent to 39.6 percent and the Social Security/Medicare
tax rate could climb from 2.9 percent to 15.3 percent. Put those
together, and you get 54.9 percent) (Source: www.barackobama.com)
4. This 54.9 percent tax rate would be the highest since the Carter
Administration, when America suffered through double-digit inflation and
unemployment (Source: Congressional Budget Office)
5. America's 26 million small businesses employers give a paycheck to
116 million employees (Source: Census Bureau). When small business taxes
go up, millions of these employees will be at risk of being laid off.
Who are you to say that someone shouldn't complain about 3%. Sure those guys can afford to pay more, but do you realize how many tax dollars those making over $250,000 generate? They employ others, they manufacture goods, they sell goods and services that are all taxed. Those in that bracket already pay more in taxes than anyone else anyway.
Obama's plan obviously goes further than simply repealing the Bush tax cuts. I also fear that this might be another nail in the coffin of the family farmer.
Big small businesses can offset those higher taxes by creating new jobs and taking advantage of the many other tax breaks for businesses that are laid out in the Obama plan.
And if the owner of said "big small business" is making a personal income of over $250,000, he or she can afford to pay more in taxes and should.
Why Republicans have made "Joe the Plumber" the poster-boy for their economic platform is beyond me. His cry of "If I get rich you're going to punish my success" is ludicrous in light of the fact that John McCain's continuation of the Bush tax cuts for the rich will likely prevent that from ever happening.
Plus, Joe the Plumber apparantly doesn't believe in paying any taxes, seeings that he hasn't even paid his own property tax and has a lien on his home. Plus he was making up all that nonsense about trying to buy his boss's business that would make more than $250,000 a year -- it is completely outside the realm of reality. He could in no way afford it, and the business doesn't make that much money. He was just saying it.
In reality, Joe the Plumber and all like him would do better under Obama's plan, and then maybe could get ahead in this world. And the big small businesses that are making so much money that they are having to pay higher taxes would make it up in higher sales figures brought on by a healthy economy.
McCain's economic plan can be summed up in three words: "Four More Years"
Typical leftist tactic, attack the person and not the issue.
The left has an issue with Joe the plumber because Obama showed some of his true colors with the "I'm going to spread the wealth around" statement. So any way you can invalidate Joe the plumber, you can invalidate Obama's statement to him.
I'll take four more years of lower taxes. What do you have to say about the payroll taxes? Is Obama only increasing taxes 3%?
The reason people attack Poor Old Joe is that he is a liar and a fraud. He is nothing more than a plant for the RNC and he is too stupid to see that he is being used by them. Now he has all this attention he is going to get left out to dry by the RNC since it has come to light that he has been operating without a license and is behind in his taxes. Nice upstanding citizen! McCain is parading him around like a trophy and nothing more. I for one am sick of hearing about him. He is going to do better under Obama so I am not sure what McCain is trying to prove with him. But like McCain said he is not good with economics or saying anything but "I have a plan for that" with no details. Heck he still thinks he is locked up in a Viet Cong prison. That is why he said "My fellow prisoners" in his speech the other day. Even his fellow Republicans are questioning his judgment now. At least Obama is coherent and he has a plan and has shared the details of that plan.
As far as "Sharing the wealth" you must be okay with all the CEO's running corporations into the ground and still walking away with millions in severance. These are the people that Bush gave tax breaks to so they can do this and that Obama wants to take the breaks away from. Sounds reasonable to me. But then I worked for one of those corporations for 31 years only to have my CEO steal millions and run my 401k and retirement account into the ground. He is in jail now but before he got locked up he divorced his wife so she could take the funds and hold them for him until he gets out. Dennis Kozlowski and Tyco. Here I will make it easy for you. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dennis_Kozlowski
So do you want to see this practice continue? Or would it be better to see the people that worked hard for all those years get to share in that success too? The problem is people only want to relate Obama's plan to the poor small business owner. Most of which will not be affected. Kind of the reason they are called SMALL businesses! The real people that this plan is aimed at is the large corporations that have so many tax loopholes now that they pay little if any taxes and make millions off the sweat of their employees, then underfund their retirement accounts so nothing is there when they retire. And then the government, insert taxpayers here, have to pick up that bill too while the CEO's retire to a tropical island somewhere. But you are worried about some idiot pawn of the RNC. Great priorities!
I guess this means you won't be voting for McCain?
Mel Gibson has nothing on U
This is a real Conspiracy Theory if I have ever heard one…
Joe the plumber is a RNC plant???
I believe it I just want U to walk through it with me…
So Obama is in town going door to door… Joe and his son are in there own front yard tossing a football…
Obama comes up to him in HIS yard, and ask him a question?
Joe responds….
Obama stepped in when he said spread the wealth around…
If the RNC could plan that they would be way ahead in this race…
U already have good arguments, don’t make dumb ones…so don’t help Obama OK?
Facts Joe works for a licensed contractor under his lic…
so he is a working licensed plumber, he owes back taxes,
half of the candidates runnin in MO owe back taxes…
You blame Bush for poor business controls? Most all of those companies Tyco, Enron, Worldcom etc were let to run wild under the Clinton Administration. Bush signed the Sarbanes-Oxley Act in 2002 which put stricker accounting controls on publicly held corporations to prevent what happened to shareholders like you happen to others. So you can thank GWB for being part of the solution. I don't know how taxing a CEO more would prevent corporate greed, maybe you can explain that to me, I think it would encourage it.
Look and see what the Dems in Congress are considering doing to 401K plans. So we might not have to worry about them at all.
http://www.usnews.com/blogs/capital-commerce/2008/10/23/would-obama-dems...
Can't wait for a Dem controlled White House and Congress. All these entitlements and not enough tax dollars. I am sure they will try hard to get what they can out of our pockets and spend it as they see fit.
BTW if Joe can't afford to pay his bills now, how will he when Obama increases his taxes?
The SOX law was and is a joke. It is nothing more than a bunch of meaningless paperwork that no one in the government looked at. And who had to fill it out. People like me that was already doing the job of 2 or 3 people because the greedy company had eliminated jobs to improve the stock price and the CEO's bonus. I said nothing about taxing a CEO. I mentioned the elimination of the tax deductions that allow multi-million dollar corporations to get out of paying their share of the tax burden. But like all the other McCain supporters and RNC drones, you choose to hear what you want and twist it to fit your ideals.
I do not know if Obama's plan will work but I do know that this country cannot stand another 4 more years of the failed Bush agendas. And that is exactly what you are going to get with McCain. Another incoherent figurehead that the RNC can use to promote their agenda. You can blame Clinton all you want but I actually made money during his presidency and he left office with a budget surplus that Bush squandered and then some. I do not know why people cannot understand that if the US would stop wasting money in the mid-east there would be money to spend on our own citizens. The warring people of that region have fought continuously since the Bible was written and they are not going to stop because the US tells them to. That is why they are usually under the rule of a hard core dictator. To keep them in line. If the government would outlaw the sale of weapons to this region they could just throw rocks at each other. They are not smart enough to build anything themselves. The RNC and its mindless drones wants to call Obama UN-American because he wants to spent OUR money on OUR country but is okay with spend OUR hard earned tax dollars blowing up country's and then building them back with sub-standard contractors. Anyone that supports spending OUR money in other countries before we take care of our own are the ones that are UN-American.
Why do you not adopt Joe and take care of him? He does not represent me or my ideas. He is just a "not too bright guy" being used by the RNC as a figure for the uninformed to latch onto. And it appears to have worked for you. :)
I since U are passionate and involved but a lot of UR facts are wrong..
Obama picked Joe… He came on to his propriety and ask him a question…(notice I didn’t even say Axed U a question),
what happened next will go down in history books depending on how the election turns out..
I think YOU ARE RIGHT, about the mid east..
I have been against it from jump street for the same reasons, these people have been fighting 1500 years longer than we have been a country, so what gives us the right to go and tell them to stop???
U r right the Gov is a mess the economy is a mess and the next four years are going to be hard for any one…
I hate to see a young fella try it as his first job…
But he will have Ayres & Wright, Farrakhan, Khiti so it will be ok…
Quote "(notice I didn’t even say Axed U a question)"
Flying the Racist flag again Mminoe?
Now knock it off and act like an adult. Everyone knows he isn't racist and if Bill Ivie thought for one minute he was he wouldn't be blogging, stop downing the man for typing errors and for the way he actually talks in person. Enough is enough with the racist crap, get over it and grow up! No one finds it funny anymore!
I don't want anybody taxed and turn around and give that money to somebody else for nothing. As Gayle said, Gates and Trump can afford to pay an extra 3% in taxes. Larry Johnson is making 3 million a year to play football, he can afford a little bit more.
The problem with trickle down economics is that it doesn't necessarily trickle down. They didn't take greed into account with it. Joe the Plumber doesn't necessarily have to donate any money to anybody and neither does anyone else. It seems that frequently they don't and that's ok. You should be able to do with your money what you want for the most part.
My wife and I make a very comfortable living, but we still live in an old house, we drive used cars, we don't eat out, but I don't mind paying in a little more so that people who don't have it as good as us can go to college or a sick kid can see a doctor.
I have a huge problem paying in a little bit more so that somebody who is perfectly capable of working can sit around for years on end, popping out kids so they can get more money, just leeching the system. I do think our welfare system needs some big time reforms.
But like I've said before, I don't see raising taxes on wealth as a bad thing. Would you rather make 10 million dollars a year and pay in an extra 3% or would you rather make 30k a year and pay your 3% total?
The entire point of this discussion isn't a dislike of paying a higher tax, it is the idea that the proposal of Obama's would use the proceeds from that higher tax not to run the government, but rather would use it to fund what amounts to a welfare state. I look at that as a forced charitable donation to a cause I would rather not fund. If I am to make a donation to a charitable cause, I prefer to choose the cause and the amount. I am not being selfish with my money, just choosy, and I think I can make a better choice than can the government.
With you to a point. I believe if you make as much as Donald Trump and Bill Gates you can afford to pay a little more taxes than what you are. I believe if you make anything above $300k a year and up then a little more taxes, but if you are getting paid b/c you are so greedy you are screwing people then slap on the taxes. My personal opinion!
I do agree with you though Civil, and the only reason why I have a new car is b/c I got tired of fixing my old to keep it running every day. Other than that I live in a house that was built in 1940, living on one income and have 3 kiddos so I do understand and one of my kiddos is disabled and SS office states she cannot get benefits.