The news today reports that Obama approves of the latest deal from North Korea. You know, that is the “agreement” where N. Korea has said “take us off the terrorism list and we will dismantle our nuclear reactor and let U.S. and UN inspectors in to verify we did disable the reactor.” Turns out the N. Korean approach is first you take us off the list, then we dismantle and then you inspect. Rumor has it the next demand will be all U.S. troops off the peninsula. Seems we have been here before. We’ve already mistakenly given them $25M in aid and look what it got us. What’s the old saw? “Screw me once, poor you, screw me twice, poor me”.
McCain has a different approach. He proposes that N. Korea allow the U.S. and UN inspectors in to observe the dismantling, and then when the inspectors verify the reactor is disabled permanently the U.S. removes them from the list. Sounds a lot better to me.
Appears Obama still is not ready to enter the world stage of negotiations,
Related Link
I found this link related to the topic... http://www.cfr.org/publication/14757
It’s the same old problem…
It’s bothered me since Nam…
We just keep letting the third world dictators out think us…
They do it at every turn, I could list a dozen, that come to mind, when we told Castro to send us his people urning to be free,
And he emptyed out the prisons…
Cost us a $billion$ at lest and changed the face of Miami forever…
I keep sayin it and no one listens, it Chess NOT Checkers…
Were Playing Checkers and the world plays Chess…
That’s why OB’s words are so critical and he doesn’t seem to realize that yet, that’s what scares me the most…
Like when Hillary was ask if Israel was attacked would we defend them, she said yes we would go to Nuke’s to defined Israel…
Well we may or may not, but U can’t bandy that sort of language around….
It can get U killed; just ask Saddam Hussein of you can’t get killed…
He was playing a hi stakes version of Texas Holdem and Bush called him and went all-in, Saddam Hussein never had Nuke’s but he said He did and it got him killed and caused this war…
I don't think U should be allowed to run for president unless you have served in a military unit, not rear Escalon, combat.
And play chess at the master level as a minimum requirement...Just like being born in the USA...
Just because....
you served in the military doesn't make you fit to be president. I've known tons of incompetent people in the military that couldn't run a can opener.
I do agree with your sentiments though that the US always seems to negotiate a little naive and a lot of times ends up not in a good position.
I'm also with we get to send the inspectors in first and then if they complied we can see where to go from there in this particular case.
However, at least Obama is open to the idea of talking to other countries without shoving our agenda down their throats. After all, the US is part of the world and just because something works or is good for us, doesn't make it so for the rest of the world. Iraq is a looooong way away from a democracy and they might not ever have one regardless of what we do there.
With out being rude
Neither of U have been in the service so U don’t understand,
What U learn?
It’s about being responsible, teamwork, looking out for your squad…
people don’t jump on grenades because that is taught in boot camp….
U grow up …
It’s not about the skills it’s about the experience…
So that when U get ready to send young people into HARMS WAY
you have some idea, what U are doing to their young lives
And make sure the end justifies the means..
I do agree Iraq is not Free it’s not democratic, we don’t even know if they really want freedom, according to 60 min yesterday, most men on the street wanted us out, the T-wall down so they could get on with killing each other like they have been since 625 AD…
Uhm, I served in the military...
I served 12 years in the Army, including the first time around in Iraq. I served with lots of different Officers, NCOs, and enlisted personnel. And I knew quite a few Officers, NCOs, and enlisted folks that I wouldn't trust to carry a rifle around me, let alone go in combat and watch my back with. I knew irresponsible people that I couldn't believe that they let stay in, that wouldn't play on a team, nor look out for their buddy let alone a whole squad. I agree that the vast majority of people in the military are responsible and selfish and I knew quite a few that grew up once they joined.
Bush was in the military and look what he did. The US can't force their morals, beliefs, or anything else along those lines on countries that don't want them no matter how strong our military is.
I do believe that most presidents are quite aware of the consequences of sending our troops into harms way and only do that as a last course of action, our current president being an exception to that.
Interesting
Interesting
U have much better current info on the Military..
What was your MOS?
How long were U in Iraq? At least that was one we won!
Did what was needed and got out..
Huraaa
I have to agree...
I also know a very few military personnel that couldn't run a can opener, let alone an oven with out help. But the U.S. does need to learn how to talk at the level everyone else is talking at. I fully agree with everyone on this one, but just remember the old saying of "becareful of what you wish for," you never know what will happen or when.
~Life is to short for idiotic behavior!~
Just
It is not that Obama is open to talking to other countries, it is that he wants the initial meeting to be at the Presidential level Typically, there has been a lot of give and take between Sec. of State and Foreign Ministers long before the President gets involved. There seems to be a myth going around that the U.S. in the past has not talked to other countries. That's not true. The talks have been on going, sometime thru third parties, sometimes within consortoriums such as the group of 6 dealing with N. Korea or the groups dealing with Iran. The fact that the Presidents, including Clinton, have not participated simply indicates any agreements have not yet reached Presidential level.
Everything that I've read....
about what Obama wants isn't that countries that we aren't very friendly with wouldn't just automagically get to talk with him. There would be preparations with the Sec. of State and other government personnel before that would happen. What he doesn't want is for us to say we're not even going to talk to you until you do what we say.
And in that regard I agree with him. Talk is cheap why wouldn't we want to talk to the world about their opinions? And before anybody goes off the deep end, I'm saying there is nothing wrong with talking, actions are totally different. If N. Korea wants aid or whatever, they should have to give up their nuclear weapons first and let our inspectors in before any actions are taken. But that still doesn't mean that they shouldn't be able to talk to us about it all they want.
Everything
Obama's comment during a debate with Clinton was that he would talk with someone like amadejijad without precondition. That leaves the Sec. of State and everybody else out of the mix. Interesting that today a-jad said he would only talk with Obama if we meet certaiin conditions, like disavow Israel and pull all personell out of the mid-east. Anybody can talk with us whenever they wish - it just needs to be at State level before the Prez gets involved.
I saw the same debate
and he said he would meet with them after preparations by the State Dept. And by precondition, he means that he will meet with leaders of other countries without dictating to them that they have to do something favorable before meeting with him. He never said that he would meet, on a moment's notice, with every 3rd world dictator without the state department preparing for the meeting beforehand.
And we should be willing to sit down with whatever country wants to have a sit down. It's called diplomacy. We shouldn't be bullying other countries into doing something so that they can talk about whatever issues they want to talk about. If we talked to other countries like they are our equals as opposed to what they can do for us, our credibility in the world would go way up.
And it doesn't matter if anybody thinks that Iran, N. Korea, Iraq, or whatever country doesn't do the things that we want them to do, they are still a part of the world that we live in and should be treated with respect until it's time to not treat them with respect.
Wrong
Evidetly you did not see the same debate. In the one with Hillary he said he would meet without preconditions. Hillary told him that was not only naive but potentially dangerous.Without preconditions means no prearranged topic, no agenda, no qualifications, no limits on discussion. In other words, no reason for the meeting and no hope of any outcome, solutions or agreements. Kinda like talking to your neighbor over the back fence. In the case of the President meeting with someone like A-Jod all it does is elevate A-Jod to an equality with the President and add to A-Jod's prestige around the world, especially with other leaders like Chavez and Kim Jung II.
Your definition....
and my definition of preconditions, along with Obama's, are different then. He said in the debate with McCain that preconditions are making another country do something, like quit making nuclear bombs or bring your human rights standards up to ours or move your military out of this country, before we will meet with them. That's ridiculous to make another country do things like that before you will talk to them. And I'm not saying make nice talk, it can be tough talks like if you don't quit making nuclear bombs or you don't fix your human rights issues or you don't move your military, we will be forced to act on those.
I agree that there should be an agenda on what they are going to discuss. I'm not sure what you mean by qualifications, but if somebody is a leader of another country, then they are the leader of another country, what other qualifications would they need other than that? If A-Jod is the leader of Iran, he's the leader, it's that simple.
And I'm sure that the President is usually pretty busy so he just doesn't go around inviting heads of other countries for sleepovers in the White House. Of course there are always issues to discuss, nobody's saying that there wouldn't be hope of an outcome, solutions or agreements.
Preconditions are making another country conform to something you want them to conform to before you will talk to them about anything. It's kind of like in school where you can't sit at the cool table until you wear the cool clothes.
Unfortunately, the US has a habit of bullying other groups and countries into conforming what we think they should conform with. The world doesn't work like that. Maybe if we tried to play nice beforehand and listened to issues and such the US would be held in higher esteem than we currently are.
def
Exactly. We will talk to both Iran and No. Korea on the precondition that they shelve their nuclear ambitions. The current debacle in N. Korea is a good example of proceeding on hope.
You're right
However, we talk to them and in the meetings we try to get them to shelve their nuclear ambitions. We don't tell them that we aren't going to meet with them at all until they do. Having an agenda at a meeting is a lot different than telling somebody they have to conform to something before you can even get to that meeting.
I wonder what would have happened in N. Korea if Bush hadn't said that it was part of the Axis of Evil in his State of the Union address and we had tried to open a dialogue a long time ago instead of having to go into a 6 nation diplomacy stunt. When have you ever seen 6 people, let along 6 countries come to the same agreement.
I watched a history channel this morning about 5 AM
It was Clinton and Arafat, and Sharon and they were at Camp David …
They did the camera spot and then started to enter the building for the peace talks…
NO one wanted to go in first..
So Clinton went in, then Arafat & Sharon paused and they pushed & shoved each other into the door with Sharon going in last…
Seems foolish to US … But in the Arab culther it is very important who enters last, is in charge…
I learned one of the WORST things you can do to a child in Vietnam is rub his head… It is so natural for us to rub up a kids head….
They believe that his sprit lives there and if U rub his head U could steal his sprit…
See this is why we don’t take a community Activists from Chicago and send him to talk to a guy wearing a time bomb for the world…..
Jesus was a community activist
At the end of the day, we're all human beings and we all have our own set of morals and beliefs and we all have to respect each others morals and beliefs even if we don't agree with them. And I'm not saying that we should respect Iran's belief that Israel needs to be wiped off the face of the earth I'm saying that even though Iran believes that if we treat them from a position of respect, you always catch more flies with honey.
What I don't get is why the US thinks that we are better than everybody else in the world and that everybody else in the world wants to be exactly like us. That's just not the case.
That's why it's important for the President to know things like you don't rub the head of a Vietnam child or that the last person that goes in is in charge. If he knew things like that beforehand he could be prepared for them and have a bigger door so they could all go in together.
Now see
u are starting to see why I say it's chess not Checkers...
We are dealing with peoples from all over the globe...
They have been growing Poppies in Afghanistan for 1500 years, at one point in the 1800’s the UK went to war with them to MAY THEM GROW MORE OPIUM, goggle it...the opium wars... very interesting...
Columbia has been using Coco leaves for 2,000 years they don't have a problem, but we do so we go there and tell them to quit growing Coco who gives us the right to do that...???
Muslims have many wives, can we tell them only one???
In most of these countries women are treated like dogs, or a good saw or hammer… do they have to change their culther to talk to us???
It never stops, do we have to make every one in the world nuts for Richard Cook & Hanna Montana in order to talk to them??? We got really nuts in the last 20 years and I think it is unretreaviable, the Pandora’s box is open…