Public meeting TONIGHT at Cler-Mont Elementary School
Submitted by Adrianne DeWeese on August 27, 2009 - 12:48pm
Tina Wyatt-Rockers has worked hard to involve a wide range of community leaders and citizens for a public meeting at 7 tonight at Cler-Mont Elementary School, 2101 N. Twyman Road, in Independence. The topic will be recent fights that Wyatt-Rockers captured in a cell-phone video. Tina had told me last week that she was making calls like crazy in efforts to attract representatives with state and federal legislators, as well as Independence city staff and City Council members.
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What a great meeting this was. It was great having you Adrianne at the meeting! I am so looking forward to your story on it. Thanks for this blog. KSHB Channel 41 did a great story last night. If any of you get a chance to pull it up you will enjoy it. Tina Wyatt-Rockers put her heart into it as she always does. The Examiner and Channel 41 always do their very best that is why they are always my favorites!!! You can tell they put their hearts into their stories and it always shows! xox
For those of you questioning the budget and where the money for the city is spent, you can find the report here for 2008:
http://www.ci.independence.mo.us/Finance/budgetDownloads/2009/OperatingBudget08-09.pdf
If you are interested in doing a budget comparison from 10 years ago, visit this link: http://www.ci.independence.mo.us/Finance/budgetDownloads/1998/Budget%20Document%201997-98.pdf
(These are large pdf documents that require the free Adobe Acrobat reader to view them http://www.adobe.com)
One of the things mentioned by the officers last night was the limited number of officers this city has available for each shift. Something I was hoping the officer would have better explained was the number of officers available on Northzone and the number of officers available on Southzone. The two zones combined adds up to the total number of officers he told the public last night. (I think) everything north of 23rd St. is Northzone and everything south of 23rd St is Southzone.
Another point he made was priority calls. I know from monitoring the police scanner on a daily basis that calls do come in by priority. That brings me to another item I wish he would have pointed out. While a high priority call could come in on southzone (and I will give an example) this could require assistance from northzone units to respond to a southzone call.
eg
Let's say some guy threatens neighbors with a gun at 40 Hwy and Northfleet, almost, but not quite into Kansas City. Neighbors may need to be evacuated, and roads must be blocked for public safety purposes. This could require all officers on southzone, and many on northzone. Meanwhile on northzone, the remaining 4 officers are on high priority calls. Each time an officer goes on a high priority call, at least two officers respond. The remaining two officers could already be on another high priority call somewhere else on northzone, perhaps somewhere near the Independence Square. Meanwhile, other high priority calls will most likely come in. Now, let's say you called the police about an incident during this incident. Response times are certainly going to be delayed and the calls will be responded to by highest priority.
An effort was recently made to get more tax dollars for additional officers to patrol the streets, but voters shot it down.
Groups such as this one could also focus on handing out brochures prior to a vote taking place, and even be handed out at polling stations. It could give a better understanding as to what people are voting for before they walk in the door.
I urge everyone to listen to what's happening on the police scanner for at least one full day. This will give you a better understanding about the response times. You can listen to my Independence, Missouri Police and Fire scanner feed live by following the instructions on my website: http://indepmo.com/listen
Archived Independence Missouri Police Scanner Recordings
http://www.indepmo.com
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This was posted on the blog about a week before the election. There are 18 sworn officers on each of two shifts in both patrol districts, plus 3 command level officers on each shift for a total of 21officers each shift and a total of 84 officers for all shifts in both districts. I think there are 5 other officers available on a need basis. I've forgotten the number of vehicles available, but I seem to recall it was15 per shift. Obviously some units have 2 officers per vehicle. There are currently 12 patrol sectors of varying size.
The 2008 IPD Annual Report says that we have a total of just over 200 sworn officers, with 89 of those assigned to uniformed patrol. Since they work 12 hour shifts, that is 44.5 officers per shift. Even accounting for days off, vacations, sick days, etc, it sure seems like we ought to be able to have more than 15 cars per shift. They have the money to buy more cars (sales tax already passed) and in fact have bought various new vehicles. That's why I'm questioning their ability to schedule.... and why are less than 1/2 of our officers on patrol????? Do we have too many specialized units??? I don't have a degree in this, it just seems like common sense isn't being applied to current police scheduling.
Complacency is the enemy. Be educated. Be aware. Be involved.
We have a problem if you would go out on a ride along you would see. The night I went we only had 8 cars. I have had a lot of friends go and they did not have the 12 cars either. Last night at the meeting the Captain made it sound like we are in black out a lot of the time. We should have a way to find out how much we are in black out. I don't understand the IPD but I sure would like to. Specialized units may be good but our streets have a problem we need addressed.
the last vote we had included 18 office types to free up officers for Patrol???
If U recall a few days after the Aug 4 election.... I suggested Ye NO voters had handed them a mandate to do excatly what they are now doing??? Well Geee we need more Cops and U all voted NO so were doin the best we can???? U get what U vote for????
.........thanks for your intelligent insight......I listened to a police scanner for a year..........what you say makes sense........so are we to believe that "what YOU described" was the case in 24 of 24 incidents?.........and if they are so busy then why do I see them at the QT on Gudgell in two's or threes hanging out for 20 minutes at a time...........why do THREE officers respond to a 911 call instead ot TWO?.............as I observed......I see them sitting side by side in cars for up to a half hour at a time in parking lots.........are they THAT busy?...........REALLY?....................that they couldn't make it out to the school in time ONCE OR TWICE?.......enough to make an example of a few kids...........c'mon.............it wasn't a priority.......that is THE truest thing I 've heard anybody say............I wouldn't even have called the police......but these citizens did......and they deserve better...........THERE ARE THOSE WHO CAN..........and THERE ARE THOSE WHO EXPLAIN WHY THEY CAN'T....................you can bet if the caller were an officer's wife they respondants would have got to the scene in a hurry...............at least a couple times...........they probably thought......here we go again...........the 23rd call about "school kids" fighting..............let's take our time and they'll be gone.....or "run our sirens" and they'll be gone.........but NOBODY would EVER admit THAT..................God helps those who help themselves sometimes.........and THAT is the message I see the IPD sending the citizens of THAT neighborhood.............in a subtle way............
eldoggg
Well, first I would say I failed to mention what the officer stated last night.
Blackouts. = 0 officers available due to call volume.
When blackouts occur, the list of calls that are priority get longer and longer until officers clear a previous call.
I never mentioned what I described was the case of 24/24 incidents, but I hear quite often that calls are holding (not enough police officers)
When stating you see them parked at QT, have you ever heard of take home cars? What if they are on their way home, or perhaps on their way into work? Perhaps they have went 10-7 on break, which most job's in the real world provide breaks for their employees. Just because they wear bullet proof vests and guns doesn't mean they are any different from an employee working any other job who get's a 15-30 minute break. I'm glad you stated in you're post that you observe them sitting there 30 minutes at a time, because that's the average American's lunch break.
And you ask why three officers respond to a 911 call instead of two? Well, that could be for a few reasons.
Many 911 calls that come in are 911 hangup calls. Would you like to walk into a situation not knowing what's going on? I mean seriously, what if a home invasion is in progress, and three armed individuals are in a house, one member of the family slips away long enough to dial 911 but can't talk and don't want the perps to hear them? Maybe even a domestic violence case where a male threatens his wife/girlfriend with a bat to hang up the phone (after calling 911), then nearby neighbors hear the disturbance, they too call 911 just stating "a female is screaming next door) 1 911 hangup call + 1 neighbor heard a female screaming = more officers. Also, if it's a known problem/perp who will run from the police when they arrive, or has been known to be combative with officers in the past, this could cause more units to respond. Makes perfect sense, doesn't it? I guess we can all have the mentality that these officers carry guns and wear vests, and they could just send one officer, and if he decides to attempt to struggle with the officer while trying to take the officers gun the one officer can just shoot him and move on. Wait... That would lead to a lawsuit because the perp wasn't armed.
On the other hand, I suppose you could get on craigslist and hire armed security guards out of you're own pocket to patrol the school/park. Wait... they too would have to call an officer, because they aren't law enforcement officers, they are just security guard/citizens. I guess the security guard could make an example out of the kids, but he would then be commiting a crime.
Back to the wife thing... If my wife called, you can bet I too would be on my way. At that time, dispatch would then tell the officer there is a family emergency at home, and he most likely would be excused from duty Just my guess... On the other hand, if it were my wife calling about my neighbor, I would most likely say, "please keep me updated with what's going on."
Do you honestly think for a minute that these officers want to take their time going to a call, or just sound their sirens to disburse the kids? I don't think so. If that were the case, I am sure many of the concerned citizens in the area, including myself who have put three kids through Cler-mont, with a fourth one attending there now, would most likely go to Radio Shack, install a siren under the hood with a push button on the dash, and just scare them off all night long.
For those of you who have a good understanding of budgets and politics, I hope my previous post made sense to you.
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My comment to that is..............Why are they taking home cars? Yes I understand that is concidered an emergency vechile. But so are tow trucks and we can't park them in our drive ways. So why can police officers?
........seems like a waste of resources to me....just because it's been done for YEARS makes it a good idea now?........were there crime and money issues YEARS ago?.........why do they need a demo?.......like car salesmen........couldn't those cars be put to better use on duty since there are money issues....like they want us to pay more money.......... when they could save money in this area by having cops drive their own cars home like "Joe Citizen?"............
eldoggg
Its been a policy for years????
......OK then fine......the police were "too busy" to respond in a timely manner to 24 out of 24 calls.....they're always on break when they're idle.....they're always on break when i seee them at QT and the citizens should handle the situation themselves instead of "bothering " the busy police that are trying to attend to REAL business......I stand corrected...........as I've stated before ....I would let the kids fight until they killed themselves.....if that's what they want to do...and the parents want to ignore the "fighting marks" on their children......you can't fix stupid...........it's natural selection anyway........survival of the fittest..........the dummies kill themselves.......but you should send a copy of your explantion to all the residents in that neighborhood....and to the participants at the Susquehanna Neighborhood Watch Meeting.....or whatever it's called.......so THEY will know .........so THEY will understand........I was unware that we were that much like East L.A. but I guess we are.......does anybody REALLY believe that an extra officer on that shift from passing the tax increase would have made the difference to those calls?..........I don't........if the IPD is THAT swamped.......... we needed to pass a 50 cent tax increase to double our force here in East L.A..............
eldoggg
Perhaps if they moved about half of the officers now working the day shift, onto evenings and dogwatch, these problems would be solved. IPD seems to have an overabundance of officers on day shift, as they have plenty of time to hide out in side streets and parking lots to write tickets to unsuspecting motorists. Seems like they just don't know how to schedule.
Complacency is the enemy. Be educated. Be aware. Be involved.
......no they're always at lunch when you see them "chatting" or sitting in parking lots.....their "half hour" breaks......and they're always on their way home when you see them at QT for 20 minutes....hanging out in the magazine section........I don't hold it against them........no matter if they're on the clock or not......they do work I wouldn't want to do...it should be a perk to relax for a few minutes when they're not doing some public service.....or giving out a ticket......but MY POIINT was that I don't believe they were TOO BUSY to respond in a timely manner to 24 of 24 calls about the fighting..........but I'm a believer now.......I STILL don't understand then why the police said that "the kids must have heard the sirens and run off before they got there"..........WHY do they run the sirens to alert the kids?....................or is tHAT an unfair question too?...........and since they were too busy to make it out of 24 calls?........why show up at the meeting to speak about it?......what's going to change?.......do they know that there's going to be a break in violent crime in the near future?.....on the night of the next 911 call about the fighting?.......why not just say "we';re never going to make it because we're too busy.......if you had voted for the tax we would STILL not have enough manpower to get there.....so quit calling ......"it's the parent's responsibility anyway"..........24 out of 24 times they "couldn't get there in time........wow........I wish I could bet on that deal ..........what are the odds?.............
eldoggg
Just curious. Where did you study administration of justice and become an expert on police force manpower scheduling? If you are indeed knowledgeable on the subject I bet they would welcome your input so that they might use their resources more efficiently.
.......glad to have you back Elisa.....I watched the Channel 41 story last night.......kudos to Tina for her hard efforts........the only thing I found appalling was when the police gave the excuse that the reason they were an hour late on the "call about the fighting kids"........that they just didn't have the manpower because of prioritizing "violence in the city".........OK........I'll buy that for one call......I'll buy that for maybe a second and a THIRD call........but I am remembering Tina saying that there had been (without looking it up) some ASTRONOMICAL number of 911 calls about this SAME issue.....EDIT: the only reference I could FIND was that there were "OVER TWO DOZEN " 911 calls placed by Tina.............and the police are going to have me believe that there is so much "violence in the city" like East L.A. that it takes them an hour to respond to a call a few miles from their station?.......time and TIME again?......over 24 times?.............that's ridiculous...........it SOUNDED good on camera........like they're REALLY trying.......but common sense prevails here........sorry I'm not buying it........then of COURSE I was waiting for the "stinger"..........which came at the end...........the newscaster reminded us that "Independence voters TURNED DOWN the police request for more manpower by voting down the recent sales tax increase on the ballot.........I was not FOR the tax increase but I voted FOR it because I thought it was the lesser of TWO evils...........but in no way do I think this excuses the IPD from being able to respond in a timely manner...... a MULTITUDE of times........ a few miles from their station.........once?.....yeah.......twice?.....OK.......three times?........alright.......but repeatedly?........don't insult our intelligence ..............no wonder people over there "voted it down"...........the police aren't impressing THEM much...........except for "rhetoric".............the time the officers spent at the "photo op" and public meeting could have been used to solve the problem if they had just "made it a priority " once or twice.............I'm guessing if a kid got seriously injured on "school grounds?".........from fighting after hours?.......like being in a coma......or worse ?.......death..........then some "ambulance chaser" would have the parents bringing a lawsuit against the city for "not stopping "such violence on school grounds.........if they coudn't sue the city they'd find SOMEBODY...........
eldoggg
Thanks it's good to be back! Last night at the meeting Amy had 18 pages of calls after calls from the park. People that live around that park and many other parks in Independence are up set. It has been a nightmare for them.
I never looked at the log. Were any of those calls related to the neighbors that are squabbling?
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no the list was just from cler-mont school and the park
I attended the neighborhood watch meeting last night Aug 27. What my question is: The police dept stated that they have the same amount of officers that they had 30 years ago. So, can they explain what happens to our tax dollars.Where is all this money going? Don't they think the community wants to know. Then they wonder why we voted no for the taxes to be raised. Oh I forgot the just built a new hockey arena.
Amy I know you come to all of Tina's meetings. It was so good you pulled all the police reports for the last year on the park. Most people don't know you can do that. Of course most people don't know we have had the same amount of police officers (12) on our Patrol Division. Who would think for the last 30 years that number has been the same. It's like a sick joke. If the tax would have past why would we think the city would change the number of men and women on the Patrol Division? The city has made it clear for 30 years in their minds we only need 12 little cars but what we truly need is to build more stuff with our tax dollars. On my side of town I have seen many of my friends walk away from their businesses. We have schools that have 78% of the kids on special lunch programs. Our families are at poverty level. People are loosing hours of work and even their jobs. We know people who have lost their cars and home. When most cities are cutting back our city wants to raise our taxes and spend more money. When the crime wave of drugs took over our city no one must of thought of the 12 little cars. Over the last year I have said time and time again we need help for our Patrol Division. We have problems with gangs but no one wanted to admit it or even talk about it as if the problems could just go away. Why would the city build a hockey arena with these problems that are already larger than life to add to our security problems? Our city just don't seem to see it. They have had a blind eye to these problems for 30 years. They wanted to build more with the sales tax. The people could see that and the rest is history. Government needs to be open and accountable. People need to understand where our tax dollars go. Not adding to the 12 little cars for over 30 years has eroded public confidence. Our city officials have tried to keep that a secret but the little secret is out now. Trust and respect is something earned and should never be taken for granted.
Take a look through the budgets as noted at the first of this thread. Perhaps that will shed some light as to where the money goes.And no, I don't wonder why you voted no. You seem totally ignorant of the needs of the force and never took the time to educate yourself on that subject.
Explain to my why Officer Thurman stated that we still have the same amount of offifcers that we had 30 years ago. Now, where is the money going again?
Where is the tax money going? Most of the sales tax goes to fund street repairs, storm water improvements, parks maintenance, water main extensions, and sanitary sewer improvements. None of those funds can be redirected to other uses. The "police tax" voted in 2004 can only be used for equipment, no personnel.. The rest of the Police budget is funded just like all the rest of the City's operations, from a general 1% sales tax, property tax, franchise fees and Pilots. Several people have stated over and over that the 40 additional officers can be funded from the existing income to the general fund, but none of these people has yet identified exactly where they believe there ia $3M - $4m in waste in the city budget. They are all just like you, accusing the city of waste without ever identifying where the waste occurs.
I repeat again...
1) We have less than 1/2 of our sworn officers assigned to patrol duty???
2) The PD has assigned approximately 44 officers per shift for patrol, yet we only have 8-15 cars to put those officers in???
3) The PD has been buying vehicles with those 2004 police tax funds, if we need police cars why haven't they been purchased???
4) If they DID hire 40 additional officers, what would they do with them, pay them to sit at the station and play tiddlywinks since there's no cars to put them in?????
The IPD and the city need to address these questions of COMMON SENSE before they come knocking on my door looking for more money, and need to beef up their excuses about why they can't/won't answer calls in a timely manner.
Complacency is the enemy. Be educated. Be aware. Be involved.
Maybe IPD could make a deal with KCPD, They have 100 brand new, undeployed police cars.
http://privateofficerbreakingnews.blogspot.com/2009/07/100-new-kansas-ci...
Is TeaPartyKC.com and TeaPartyBob, and TeaParty(Sue?) the same person? How about some names of who you really are. I just think I have heard you are M.W. or the guy who spoke at the council meeting. Could we have some names? Curious in K.C.
No, we aren't the same people. And I think you need to up your meds, you're hearing things again.
Complacency is the enemy. Be educated. Be aware. Be involved.
I think you are very rude and you are driving people away from your viewpoint.